Ep. 94: Assessing Executive Potential

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: [00:00:00] Good afternoon, Alexis, and welcome.

Alexis Stiles: Thank you, Gary. It’s great to be with you.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: We’re pleased to have you at this microphone. Why don’t we start right off with your role at Spencer Stewart Global Healthcare Practice Leader. Can you share, Alexis, what does that role entail?

Alexis Stiles: Sure, happy to Gary. Thank you. So the global healthcare practice leader at Spencer Stewart essentially is the individual who oversees. all of our work and our consultant and associate team that work in the healthcare practice broadly. And that includes three primary sectors biopharma, medical technology and healthcare services. And then also where there are intersections with digital health and private equity. So essentially everything we do that touches healthcare worldwide is under my.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: So if I could ask what percentage roughly of the business is outside the US and then inside the us?

Alexis Stiles: Yeah, it’s a good question. As you can imagine, where on healthcare services in particular were fairly heavily [00:01:00] weighted towards north America and so more practice is about 70, 75% in North America. And then the additional 25 to 30% in AMEA and apac with a small amount in Latin.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: I was just thinking about your job and thinking, gosh, you must have had to really adjust given Covid. Has Covid changed the. Processes at all going forward? Do you.

Alexis Stiles: Yeah there’s some elements of the process itself that still remains the same, but certainly some elements around recruitment and around our engagement with clients as you likely know and live this life as well. Much of pre covid was. A lot of in-person meetings. And with the advent and comfort with Zoom that has now become a lot more of the early, you know, start of a recruitment. And even through a client doing their first round interview via Zoom has become frankly the industry norm at this point, which allows searches to actually accelerate much quicker and for you to be able. To move the search process along and really then focus in on the [00:02:00] recruitment of the top individuals that folks wanna spend time with in person and really get to know. So it’s shortened time of recruitment and created different options.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Yeah, that makes good sense to me. Why don’t we focus on North America and spend a little bit of time on our large health systems. Alexis has the role of the c e O in the large health systems. How have you seen that evolve over the last let’s say decade or so?

Alexis Stiles: Sure. And I would say even to your question on Covid, I think a lot has changed in the last two and a half to three years just in terms of expectations and the different priorities that are falling on many of our CEOs. And you can see that con continue to evolve from the crisis to a number of the. You know, racial unrest issues that happened to the, you know, the quiet quitting and the burnout of frontline staff is requiring CEOs to be quite engaged with what is going on in the organization and quite a bit more visible than perhaps they were 10 years ago, when you could have [00:03:00] a whole team and be a little bit more distant in engaging with what is truly happening at the front lines. I think you’re. A lot more CEOs being quite visible, be that, you know, fully there in person, be that using video technology to be able to communicate more readily as well as being able to be a bit You know, more honest, engaging and inspirational. Many health systems are really looking for their leader to be clear around their mission, their vision, the inspiration for why everyone’s coming in to work every day in order for them to feel like they’re truly giving back and, you know, tapping into their own purpose. And that has certainly become front and center these days.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: CEOs seem to have adjusted. You could say to Covid or reacted to Covid, and how do you assess A C E O candidate’s Flexibility and ability to adapt to changing circumstances like they’ve had to go through the last several years.

Alexis Stiles: Yep. It’s a very good question. So it is a combination [00:04:00] of multiple different methods, both. Competency based interviews. So spending time with executives to understand how they manage through covid as well as other comparable things that, that come up day to day in any executive’s you know, career in terms of having to deal with uh, things that you weren’t necessarily expecting and how did you adapt and respond to that and you know, who you brought in, how you thought about it, how you made the decision and how you moved forward is kind of core to how we’re talking with executives. We will also spend a fair amount of time just looking frankly, at results. And what has been the track record of being able to adapt to some of those situations? What the outcome was. And then we’ve actually spent a significant amount of time investing internally on what we call an executive intelligence assessment that is really testing executives potential. So it’s not designed to do a personality test or a retrospective review of their career, but more around their potential with conceptual thinking, analytical thinking and really being [00:05:00] able to deal with, you know, making decisions in the gray area because that is far more what we. Expecting of executives these days

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: With Covid putting a lot of pressure on these health systems, has there been any movement toward physicians being more attractive as a c e O or not?

Alexis Stiles: For sure. And I think that really has started, you know, a couple decades ago. Both, both in terms of the. A number of physicians who’ve aspired to move into leadership and management roles, and certainly a fair number who’ve gone back and gotten either leadership degrees or moved into leadership roles early in their career. But there’s also a sense of that engagement, particularly with the physicians or with the clinical team that having a physician leader. Is perceived to be a strong benefit because they know what it’s like to live in that environment and have the ability to relate to the clinicians as well as, you know, bring usually a pretty broad perspective to the role. So you are seeing more physician executives and frankly more physicians who aspire to move into [00:06:00] that executive suite as well. So I think you’re gonna continue to see that over time. It’s not. I think it was a bit of a hallmark in some of the children’s hospitals and academic systems has become much more norm. Yeah.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Has. All the risks inherent to any organization really that’s a healthcare organization. Has that deterred interest in directors from serving. Have you seen that at all?

Alexis Stiles: I think from the volunteer perspective, you’ve certainly got some who feel like, you it’s a significant and has become an even more significant time commitment to really do exactly what I described and really be. A strong board member. So there’s certainly some who have felt like it’s a big ask to do. On the other hand, the mission orientation of a healthcare board and the opportunity to really give back has drawn others to the table quite uniquely, who may not have thought about doing in the past and. As many executives and particularly healthcare executives, would love to have a corporate board as they evolve in their career to add to their portfolio. Having the, you know, a [00:07:00] health system board, even if it’s still a not-for-profit board, actually gives you many of those key elements quite different than serving on a different type of not-for-profit board. There is a fair amount of good skill development that, that folks are also gaining from that experience.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Could we move to women leaders in healthcare? From the standpoint of medical school admissions, it’s 50 50 basically men and women. We’ve made good progress there. If we look at senior executives in health systems, not nearly as. Good a result there. I think our kind of informal survey is maybe 20% of health system leaders are women. We’ve seen some more notable examples of women leaders in Walgreens and C v s and so on, but how do you view Alexis, cuz you’ve got a great view of this. How do you view the progress that we’re making in terms of women leaders?

Alexis Stiles: Yeah. I think you’ve highlighted the statistics, which is we have a. Still a long way to go of [00:08:00] making sure that we’re both promoting, creating opportunities and supporting female leaders as they develop in their careers and their ability to, you know, manage successfully a career and career progression. I think you are seeing some most recent notable you know, dean of medical school, female dean of medical school announcements that have significantly up the ranks in the last two or three years, which is exciting and fun to see. And I do think your, you know, it is continues to be a a frankly a requirement in what I do to make sure that you’ve got a diverse slate. But it’s also the encourage. Of executives to, to put themselves out there and to really you know, own their career and look for opportunities to be able to grow and develop. And that, I think, continues to be a journey of making sure folks have the right mentorship. They see this as a career path and something that they can manage personally and professionally.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: . I was interviewing Dr. Joanne Conroy from Dartmouth. You know Joanne, of course. and she was making the point that one of the things that she counsels [00:09:00] women who are interested in growing their leadership roles is there’s a certain risk in. Leadership, jobs change, and so on. And she thought it was really important to work through with up and coming women leaders, some understanding of risk. And the other thing she said was the location, because sometimes you have to move, and of course that can be. Pretty significant if you’ve got a family and so on. How do you deal with that? Alexis, just in terms of risk and location issue, when you’re talking to aspiring young women leaders.

Alexis Stiles: Yep. No, I think all good points that Joanne makes, and I do think a thought process that many female executives need to go through. I think from an advice perspective, it’s really trying to catch people before you are looking at a role to really think critically around what your priorities are and what you may trade off priorities. For. Any move, especially if you’re making a move from, for example, a very stable [00:10:00] environment to one that’s a bit more unknown is going to require some level of risk. And so part of that is figuring out ways to de-risk that with you know, commitments of support with any individuals that you may know to be helpful. With some personal support in making a move. All of those things that I think are helpful to not. You know what I think a lot of women tend to feel and own a bit more, is a little bit more of the guilt and the ownership of, you know, if I do this and it doesn’t work out, then it’s all on me. And trying to have a bit of that conversation around this is a, you know, it’s a shared decision to do this and. Making sure that you’ve got a support system and support structure, be that personally or professionally or both to help make sure that, you know, they’ll catch anything that if something does go sideways and know that you can recover from that successfully as well.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Yeah. Along those lines, what do you advise men who want to be supportive of women? Leaders what? What do you advise men? What can men do to be more support?

Alexis Stiles: Men can actually do [00:11:00] quite a bit. And particularly to serve as mentors to women and frankly active mentors of women. I’ve seen some really great examples of male leaders who’ve been quite successful in their career. You know, mentoring more junior women and helping break down some of the barriers or some of the perceptions of that individual and promoting them. And that doesn’t mean that they’re, you know, out campaigning necessarily, but they are promoting their skills, their capabilities. Their their potential as a leader and encouraging both them as well as organizations to consider them for for key positions. And that can often be quite helpful even even today when you hope that we’re starting to break down some of the bias. But when there’s bias that exists and people who feel comfortable with people that they know to really have an advocate who people know and trust advocating for you can be can be quite.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: I hear leaders. About opportunities for women and so on. I wonder sometimes if [00:12:00] we’re spending enough resources in our organizations to really do kind of a good solid job developing women leaders. Do you have a feel for that, Alexis?

Alexis Stiles: You know, I think there’s some organizations that have really put a fair amount of training and development and just awareness into the different needs of men and women as you think about their leadership journeys. And then there’s a fair amount that, that frankly have not. You there are a number of organizations that have cropped up to really help, you know, support women leaders and be able to give them. A platform and you know, fellow women that they can have as, as colleagues and confidants as they face challenges in their own career. And I think those are particularly helpful to be able to bounce ideas off of. But I think there’s, again, there’s still a lot to go. There’s, you know, a lot of differences in terms of. I mean, one of the things we always talk about is they’re, you know, women look at a position description, they look at all the, you know, experience requirements and they say, oh, I have nine of 10, I’m not qualified. Men look at it, they say, I’ve got five, I’m good. . And I [00:13:00] think making sure that there’s that kind of natural bit of imposter syndrome or overachievement or I haven’t checked all the boxes in order to move forward, just holds a lot of women back unnecessarily. You know, in some ways you need a little bit of that push from others to put yourself out there as well.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Yeah. On a more personal level, what advice did you give yourself as your leadership career has evolved?

Alexis Stiles: It’s a good, it’s a good question. I don’t, you know, the advice you give yourself and then reflect on, I wish I had taken some of the advice earlier always is the case, but but I do think, you know, it’s sticking with so both just high integrity and sticking with what you believe is the right thing to do. I also think it is continuing to ask questions and push when you feel like, you know, there is an idea that you have or an issue that you wanna raise, or something that you believe is truly important to be able to share and not to hold back. Because, you know, oftentimes that can be an intimidating moment and. It’s those [00:14:00] moments where you actually put yourself out that people recognize it. And because you know, perhaps sometimes you’re not always the loudest voice in the room. And taking that opportunity and time to really say the things that are both most meaningful to you, but also gonna be quite impactful for others in the room.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Yeah. Along that line, I can remember interviewing Dr. Janice Nevin from. Janna, and of course you know Janice, and she was making the point, if there’s an opportunity or if you think there’s an opportunity, it probably is an opportunity and you should pursue it. And sometimes women aren’t, you know, as aggressive at doing that.

Have you found that?

Alexis Stiles: for sure. There’s many women who wait to get asked and then say no one ever asked me to do it, even though they, you know, clearly identified an opportunity and. I’ve also learned along the way as you get to get a little bit more experience and learn about organizations that almost anyone loves when someone else raises their hands and dives into an area of, you know, something that’s either complex and no one has tackled because everyone sees it. But people aren’t necessarily willing to [00:15:00] address it. And I think raising your hand, taking ownership of key issues, and again, if it’s important to you, You’ll put the time and energy to make sure that it’s right and then be recognized for it. And I think there are usually a, you know, a plethora of opportunities that you can choose from that that can highlight your skills and also your willingness to really give back and help an organization it’s advance.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Alexis, as expected. This has been a just a terrific interview. We do appreciate your being with us. I have one last question if I could, and dotted throughout your discussion. earlier has been advice for leaders generally, not just women, but certainly women. Let me ask the specific question. What advice do you give for up and coming women leaders who really kind of have the bit in their teeth and really want to be successful?

What kind of advice would you give them?

Alexis Stiles: A couple things. I do think, and I sprinkled a little bit, I do think you own your own career, so you know, don’t.[00:16:00] Anyone else make all the decisions for you, really purposefully think about your career and have some goals in mind. That being said, don’t be so stuck on those goals that you don’t take interesting opportunities that come your way. I’m someone who’s usually, if you’re, you know, if it. If it’s something that’s gonna increase your skills, even if it feels a little off of what you are doing today, if it’s gonna add skills to your toolkit, if it’s something that’s exciting and interesting, if you’re gonna be working with people who are gonna support you, absolutely do it. Don’t do it for 20 years, but maybe, you know, . Do it for a period of time and look for ways to then parlay that into other opportunities and experiences because your career is a cumulative series. Of accomplishments and environments that you’re in, and all of those are additive to be able to continue to advance your career. So it’s both owning it but not being so dogmatic about you know, the path that you need to take, because sometimes those circuitous pass actually land you in a very different spot. I also think it is [00:17:00] seeking out. Advice that doesn’t, and it isn’t the, you know, asking someone to mentor you without a clear objective, but truly seeking out individuals that you respect, that you admire to learn from them, understand about the decisions that they make. And you listen to the advice and decide what you’re gonna take in and what you’re not. But I think there is a plethora of experience, a number of executives, both men and women who are happy to share their stories, the things that work, the things that failed and really be an advisor. And I think being able to, you know, again, take that in and being willing to have people help is really quite imperative and impactful to young executives as well.

Gary Bisbee, P.h.D.: Very important and terrific advice. Thank you Alexis, and thanks for being with us today. Much appreciated.

Alexis Stiles: Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure. Thank you, Gary.