[00:00:28] Julie Yoo: All right. Hi everyone. I’m Julie, Yoo. I am an advisory council member for Day Zero and also a general partner at Andreessen Horowitz. And it is my sincere pleasure to have Amanda Rees on the show with us today. Amanda, as you’ll hear, is an entrepreneur and a founder of a company called Bold, which we’ll learn more about, and I’ve had the privilege of both knowing and being an investor in her company for the last, I guess, just over a year now. And it’s been incredible to watch her do what she’s doing with the company during such a challenging time in healthcare and just in general. So looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Amanda, and welcome to the show.

[00:01:04] Amanda Rees: Thank you so much. I’m pumped to be here.

[00:01:06] Julie Yoo: Awesome. Well, let’s actually start with your labor of love. That is Bold. Tell us, what is Bold? And if you could specifically highlight what you think makes it special and unique in terms of the value proposition to the market, that would be wonderful.

[00:01:19] Amanda Rees: Bold is a digital platform that creates personalized science-based programs to really help people age better. We have a fall prevention program and arthritis program. But to your question of what makes us unique, I think, within the market, it’s really that we have a digital, scalable way to prevent hospitalizations for older adults because falls and arthritis related disability are two major drivers of older adults needing to go to the hospital. `1`And our mission is to keep people healthy, active, and out of the hospital as much as possible.

[00:01:52] Julie Yoo: Incredible. And just to back up and maybe, feel free to get into a bit of your personal background Amanda, but what was the trigger or event or moment when you realized that you wanted to be an entrepreneur and actually start this company?

[00:02:08] Amanda Rees: The genesis of starting Bold was really personal. I think I knew for a while that I had always wanted to be an entrepreneur and, because my background was in chemical engineering, I always thought that it would actually be an energy company. But the impetus for Bold, I think, was twofold. It was becoming a caregiver for my grandmother, living with her, and helping her navigate her aging challenges and experience led me to think more holistically of what I wanted to see as far as solutions to help people age better and stay healthy and active and well. And the second part was meeting the right co-founder, who’s also my partner, but I think there is real partnership alignment around an idea thinking, we had been navigating for my grandmother the impact of a fall and the impact of having multiple chronic conditions. And we saw immediately how much physical activity made her both physically stronger and more independent and mentally and emotionally more well. And we felt like there’s a lot of science. It’s pretty straightforward as far as what it takes to really help someone age healthily. But there’s a gap between all the science and all of the interventions that we know we should be deploying and actually scaling those through digital platforms. And so, I think it was probably a lot of little things, but mostly meeting the right person and being inspired by something that’s not just for someone else, but that I think will impact so many people, including myself, as we age

[00:03:37] Julie Yoo: Yeah. And you, I think, maybe you’re being modest and leaving out one of the details of the origin story here, but one of the athings that we find compelling in founders is those who have truly lived the experience of whatever the problem space is that you’re building against, and also when you are the initial product to some degree and you figured out a way to scale it. So tell us more about that piece, because if folks do a search for Bold videos, they might find a familiar face.

[00:04:00] Amanda Rees: Yes. Okay. So, yeah, I think there are definitely some steps along the way. So because my grandmother was having issues with falling and balance, and I had a background in dance and yoga, I kind of started diving into the research and I was pretty astounded at, like, here are all the types of interventions and movements, and this isn’t, candidly, like all that crazy to think about how you deliver this to an older adult, but not make it feel clinical. It doesn’t need to feel like a prescription. It can feel like a class. It can make them feel energized and engaged and whole. And so, day zero of Bold was I started teaching balance and fall prevention classes in senior community settings to sort of scale up from just working with my grandmother to working with a number of older adults. And I think one of the most powerful things was seeing the results in a matter of months of individuals being able to improve their strength and balance. And I think from there, you look at fitness being increasingly at home and digital, like the Pelotons of the world, growing and being able to impact those who don’t live in a community or have access to those kinds of resources. And so, early days, we were doing everything of being on shoot for everything, being the first Tai-Chi instructor because I ended up getting certified as a fall prevention Tai-Chi community instructor. And then sort of growing it and expanding from there.

[00:05:21] Julie Yoo: That’s a certification I didn’t even know existed. That’s very cool.

[00:05:24] Amanda Rees: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Julie Yoo: Awesome. And you obviously described Bold as really a digital first solution, which is timely and interesting given the fact that you kind of started the company right before the pandemic. And could you walk us through what that did to product idea and your business, presumably with a tailwind, but would love to hear kind of how that impacted you. And then maybe just walk us through kind of one or two things that you had to change about how you were building the company and running the business that you think actually had a much longer standing impact on the trajectory of the company going forward.

[00:05:58] Amanda Rees: Definitely, I would say there were more tailwinds. Hari and I started Bold, as you mentioned, it was pre-pandemic. And so I would say one of the non-obvious things that Hari and I really believed in was that the future of healthy aging was going to be digital first and, candidly, there was a lot of ageist attitudes out there and individuals that you would meet either on the investor side or on the potential partner side of, “older adults aren’t using technology, they don’t know how”. And I think the biggest overwhelming shift was, in the pandemic, the sort of ageist belief that it wouldn’t be possible for older adults to engage digitally or that they didn’t already have the tools and access and interest, that probably was the biggest shift is it became, everybody’s older family member, grandparents, aunts, uncles were more digitally connected. And then I think there were things that were unexpected, like conducting a research program completely remotely and building a team completely remotely, and that wasn’t, initially we were doing those things in person, but part of the last couple of years has been being flexible and adapting. And so, I think it’s been really great to see what is possible as far as growing and scaling remote first way.

[00:07:09] Julie Yoo: Amazing. Is there any one thing that you think was the most profound as far as something that did have to change in the context of COVID that maybe has a very positive long term ramification for the company?

[00:07:21] Amanda Rees: You I think the sales process and finding partners who were actually prioritizing and thinking about, how do you reach an older adult at home digital first, and not just older adults who have multiple chronic conditions are sick, but are looking for flexibility in time and schedule because they’re working or flexibility. And so I think there’s been, candidly, like a much bigger pull from partners than we had expected as far as something that we hadn’t anticipated. And then, actually building and cultivating those relationships remote first without the chance to sit down at a table and sort of talk and do demos has just been something that we’ve had to adapt to.

[00:08:01] Julie Yoo: Fascinating. And actually along those lines, I think one of the fascinating things about Bold is your go to market motion. And we had spoken to you on one of our videos about this concept of B to C to B, which is basically leaning into both a direct to consumer engagement model, as well as the top down enterprise sale, which is incredibly powerful when you can get it right, but obviously I’m guessing very complex to execute. Can you talk us through kind of what led you to the insight to. Pursue that kind of approach to the market and are there things that are harder? Are there things that are easier, based on the fact that you’ve gone that route?

[00:08:34] Amanda Rees: Yes. So I think, it is hard and partially because it’s, I would say, the hardest. And for us, the most important has been setting shared context for the team because could feel like a D to C motion and a B to B motion are at odds with each other, but actually seeing it as parts to a more holistic system where we began focusing on D to C because we knew we could move faster. We could touch more lives. We could support more Bold members on the platform by first launching and acquiring those members directly. It also allowed us to just really stay true to serving and providing for those individuals who ultimately are the ones who we need to engage and support through our product. Also B2B sales just takes a longer time in healthcare and so wanting to not wait to bring our product to market until contracts are signed or partnerships are launched and ensuring that the team understood how those two pieces work together. But for us, the B2B is also around making the platform more accessible. And so recognizing there is a lot of hardships that happen during the pandemic for individuals and really finding partners who value prevention, value health and wellness, has been huge as far as saying, great, then align that with your budget and your investment and make it more accessible for members and particularly older adults who need options and solutions to access it through both.

[00:10:04] Julie Yoo: Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you were lucky in that you found a number of enterprise buyers and customers and partners who really bought into the vision and were sort of simpatico with you on the philosophy for these kinds of approaches. But it’s a very non trivial thing to find people that are aligned with you that early in your journey. What would you say are the characteristics that make a great customer in the enterprise space? And what are some pro tips because a lot of folks who are listening to this are founders who are looking to execute similar motions. What are some of the pro tips that you would share with them on working with your initial set of enterprise customers and how to set those relationships up for success?

[00:10:41] Amanda Rees: I think that our criteria was really finding early customers who are mission-aligned and care about you being successful, and that care about you being successful is because you’re solving a challenge that they are facing and that they know they need to find the right partner to help them address. So that might be finding a digital tool to support more engagement, or it might be finding a way to keep costs down from preventing falls and really anchoring to the clinical outcomes. And so I think there’s some flexibility of finding that alignment with early partners, but ultimately I think finding someone where there’s trust and mission alignment, and then also finding a partner who gives you space to do what you do best, and allows you to have more agency and controlling the success, and when you find the right set of, I think, those kinds of ingredients for a partnership, it makes for a much easier working relationship and I think leads to better outcomes overall.

[00:11:39] Julie Yoo: Great. And then another type of partnership that’s obviously critical in the early days is your investors. And that was another thing that, obviously I’m going to be biased in speaking about this topic, but talk to us about what you’ve learned about, both again, how do you forge those relationships, especially given what’s going on from a remote work perspective, and then, given the fact that you do have a relatively complex business model what do you wish investors sort of view about how to evaluate appropriately companies like what you’re building?

[00:12:07] Amanda Rees: Sure. So taking the last part of that question first is I think it was definitely a dream to find you as a partner, Julie, because you had the deep healthcare expertise, as well as digital health operational expertise. And so I think those were really two important criteria for us in finding partners who could help us grow Bold and continue to scale and be successful. I think healthcare isn’t for the faint of heart. And so sometimes if having conversations and there wasn’t familiarity with Medicare Advantage or value based care, you can get into pretty long, I would say, more educational conversations leading up, which I think with the right alignment can still be very exciting when you understand how much opportunity there is to reduce costs and improve outcomes in healthcare. But I think as far as doing it in a remote context, I don’t know that there’s that much that we did differently. But I would say my biggest learning is to make it about a relationship and not make it transactional. I think it’s very easy to think of things as deals and it’s trading dollars for equity. And I think when you pour so much of your heart and soul into building a company it needs to transcend something that’s just transactional and be like the people who you want in your corner, the people who you can trust when things are great to share and celebrate news. And then also when you’re encountering challenges, whatever that might be, that you can also really lean on and trust. And so I think it was true before the pandemic, but in a world where you just click in and out of Zoom meetings, I think it’s even more important to keep that in mind that there’s real people that are making this all possible.

[00:13:54] Julie Yoo: Yeah. I have so much empathy for that because I remember, when I was a founder, my co-founder and I would always get annoyed when investors wanted to do just get to know us and hang out and we’re like, we’re too busy, we have a company to build. But in retrospect, and I coach our founders this way now too, is, exactly to your point, it’s actually worthwhile to do a little bit of that screening upfront and make sure you have more game film than just the transactional meetings during a fundraising process to really develop a rapport or not, and also just really understand the nuances of different funds and firms and how they work and what motivates the partner, because there are significant variations in that landscape that wouldn’t come out otherwise, unless you kind of invested that time upfront. So, certainly agree, Amanda, that it’s worth carving out a little bit of time at least to invest in building those relationships. So to that point, my next question was actually going to be around time management. And, I certainly know that the CEO of any company really gets pulled in a million directions, let alone an early stage, venture backed company like yours where expectations are very high for growth. Can you talk us through, how do you think about time management and what is, if you have a rubric for prioritizing your own personal time, what are some of the things that you maybe were doing yourself a year ago, but now have figured out a way to delegate or comfort delegating? Walk us through your mental model for all of that.

[00:15:21] Amanda Rees: Yeah. Definitely. So I think that part of time management is that the responsibilities are constantly evolving and shifting. And so I think at its simplest, my framework has been the areas of highest need and highest impact. So I think, we mentioned this earlier, early days, there were a lot of things that I actually enjoyed doing. I enjoyed teaching. I enjoyed recruiting other instructors. I enjoyed helping early members troubleshoot tech issues, but as we’ve grown and you hire someone who can do it as well most of the time, and hopefully better than you, then you’re able to sort of focus on the next higher need, higher impact opportunity. So I think right now I am spending a lot of time on new partnerships and that’s really exciting. And I think there’s also this balance of personal time. And because being a founder is a really deeply personal thing, I have sort of two core things here for me. It’s, I don’t actually feel often burnt out because I love what I do. And I sometimes think that there can be this bad rap of like, oh, he’s like, you should work less or you should take a break or disconnect. And I think it’s more around knowing yourself and if you’re feeling energized or really drained by the work. But when you’re feeling energized, I think you go with that momentum and it’s really awesome. But then, life and health and family, and particularly in what’s been happening in the last few years, is super important. So, also carving out time to think, take a step back and think about you as a whole person and those you care about is important and it makes it even more challenging when your co-founder and you spend a lot of time together too. So, yeah, just be mindful.

[00:17:05] Julie Yoo: Yeah,no, co-founder relationships are all encompassing to begin with. But you guys take that to another level, so you must be doing something right. Awesome. Going back to the market that you’re playing in, as you’ve alluded to, the senior care market is extremely active these days. And potentially, one could even call it frothy, lots of entrepreneurs jumping in lots of investors really excited about the space. And it’s great on the one hand in that it elevates awareness that this is a category in which people will likely be making buying decisions and whatnot. But I’m sure it creates a ton of noise for you in terms of navigating the waters and breaking out from the crowd. What would you say, kind of advice to founders who are looking to get into the space that you wish you knew before entering into a reasonably well established robust market? And also would love to hear your thoughts on kind of what you think actually makes for a great solution for seniors. And you mentioned earlier some of the tropes around technology adoption and things of that sort, but that aside, are there other elements that have been maybe a surprise to you in terms of operating with these users?

[00:18:11] Amanda Rees: Yes. So I would say we definitely, our go to market was focused on Medicare Advantage. So there’s some implications around trends in age, but one kind of obvious thing is actually not making it about age of this is for someone of a certain age. I think individuals don’t like being defined by their age, I think no matter what you do, whether you’re over 65 or under 65. And a really good, easy to use accessible product is easy to use and accessible regardless of your age. And so, I think there are ways that you can authentically demonstrate the benefit or the value that is different, like for example, in an exercise class or program, acknowledging the pacing, acknowledging the language, the motivation, acknowledging that, as you age, your body goes through a lot, and so there’s probably more unique considerations of surgeries or pains or injuries that you’ve accumulated. And so, being sensitive to that is the example in exercise, but I think it translates to whatever kind of product you might be building is, do user testing. Like I think that should be true regardless of what the product is, but I’ve talked to a lot of some of the new founders coming in and trying to build digital products for older adults. And I think sometimes, just like a simple reminder of like, hey, have you run this by someone? Have you actually gotten eyes or feedback or done user testing, I think is really important. And there’s always things that are going to surprise you as far as what you learn through that, but it’s really valuable. And I think it really gets you a stronger product. As far as the enterprise side, I think there’s hopefully more opportunity to say, hey, there, there are a suite of solutions that could help somebody age well at home. And I think that was, we were probably on the early side of having to do a lot of, here are the stats on digital connectivity. Here are the stats on like what they hope to hear from a healthcare organization and digital formats are actually preferred to just phone all the time. And so I think there’s challenging some of the assumptions of phone and direct mail are the two best ways. And there are two ways, but there’s a lot through email text and just like web engagement that you can really unlock

[00:20:24] Julie Yoo: Very pragmatic. Awesome. And then my last question, Amanda, is hopefully a fun one, but you know, obviously at Bold, there’s such great founder market fit for you doing this. But in an alternative universe where you were not doing Bold, what do you think you’d be doing?

[00:20:41] Amanda Rees: I still have a suspicion that I would be building a company and an entrepreneur, but I think I’ve always been really passionate about climate change and sustainability, and I think renewable energy and generation and storage is really interesting. And so I think in an alternate universe I might be doing that or, I don’t know, running a farm. Something in between those two.

[00:21:06] Julie Yoo: A form of energy and climate tech and whatever farm you’d be running.

[00:21:11] Amanda Rees: Yeah, it’s funny. There’s a phrase that I’ve used a couple of times, but there’s the expression of, like, you have two forever homes. It’s like the earth and your body. And I feel like actually thinking about, how do you think longterm around caring for your body and caring for the climate are similar.

[00:21:30] Julie Yoo: I love that. Well, you’re certainly doing at least one of those things right now with Bold for all of your senior users. So congratulations on what you’re building. Thanks so much for making the time, Amanda, to share more about your insights about what it’s like from Day Zero to build something from the ground up.

[00:21:46] Amanda Rees: Thanks so much.