[00:00:28] Aaron Martin: Hi, and welcome to the Day Zero podcast. I’m Aaron Martin. I’m one of the advisors here at Day Zero and super, super, super excited to talk to Dr. Jenny Schneider who’s I think is an incredibly exciting entrepreneur and a lot of really cool things going on as we speak, but also has an incredible background. You’re a physician. What was kind of the day or bthe the moment that you knew you wanted to be a practicing physician?

[00:00:56] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Yeah, thanks Aaron. And thanks for the opportunity to have the conversation with you. Delighted to get to be here. I’m a fan of yours as well, so this is a mutual thing. So for me, I come from a large, large family in the Midwest. My dad runs the family business, which is delivering auto parts. And so I can change spark plugs. I can identify carburetor issues. And when I was 12, I was diagnosed with type one diabetes. And it was definitely, that was the moment in the diagnosis where as a 12 year old with a condition where it’s a lot of self-management, I became my own expert. And that was my introduction, I think, into healthcare. I was very fortunate to have an endocrinologist at the Mayo Clinic named Roger Nelson, who’s been a lifelong friend to me, who really understood that this was about an individual making choices and really empowered me to do that. And that definitely spurred my interest in healthcare and interest to become a physician

[00:01:55] Aaron Martin: Excellent. Can you just kind of take us from you practicing as a physician and kind of step us through your career kind of the early days and what led you to, I guess, Livongo would be one of the major kind of achievements that you were personally responsible for.

[00:02:11] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, I went to medical school at Johns Hopkins and did my residency at Stanford. And at Stanford, I started to experience healthcare outside of the walls of the hospital. So there’s a lot of, cross-pollination is the word that our director Kelly Skeff used to always use, and I got to see healthcare and think about healthcare differently, to the point where I stayed and got a Master’s in health services research, really this idea around how could I leverage data to make a greater impact in the world. And it was through that part of the journey when I was introduced to a man named Giovanni Colella, who had started Castlight Health. And I joined that company early on, and that was one of the, really, predecessors for digital healthcare. We took that company public a few years, within a year afterward, I left and joined what became Livongo Health as an early employee, first as Chief Medical Officer, and then as President overseeing a bunch of the business and was excited to leverage a lot of what I learned both through the Master’s around leveraging data in the ecosystem and the business experience I’ve had at Castlight to help facilitate and make Livongo go a little bit faster.

[00:03:20] Aaron Martin: I can see some kind of, I guess, a thread of kind of how to leverage data within both contexts, between, I guess, Castlight and Livongo. Castlight was much more of an employee facing platform for transparency, or it is, I should say. And then, Livongo is to help diabetics, but what are the kind of commonalities between those two?

[00:03:40] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Yeah, I think that they’re similar and different, meaning that there’s this level of data that’s healthcare data, whether it be outcome health care data, economic health care data. That exists both in Livongo and in Castlight. And I think that the real interesting part of the data, and I’ll talk mostly about Livongo and how we did this, is, how do you leverage non-healthcare data to drive and influence behaviors? So I often talk about, for those of us who have, whom have children, and I have a 12, 11, and 9 year old, I have spent a couple of trips at Disney, and it is the happiest place on earth because they have a team of data scientists marching you through, and you feel as though you’re making independent choices and isn’t it amazing that the Moana shop shows up right when you need to get a big drink of water with Moana’s face on it. So there’s method behind the madness there. Similarly, at Livongo, we were very focused on the healthcare data. What are the readings, blood sugar readings, for people with diabetes? Can we capture those? Could we send messages back about what to do? And it became very clear, very, very early on that most of us don’t do the things for our health, not because we don’t understand the health things, but because we’re frankly just not motivated to do it. So a parallel is, we all know exercise is great for us, and yet many of us hire a physical trainer to motivate us to go out and actually do the things that we know are good for us. And so early on at Livongo, I made a bet with the CEO, then CEO, Glen Tullman, that I needed a team of data scientists, and he’s like, I don’t know what that is, it’s super expensive. And I was like, well, if it doesn’t work out, you can fire me. How about that? And so, we took data, but we took more than just healthcare data. We took preference data. We took understanding consumer purchases, demographic data, age data, and started to develop choices for people based off of what we understood about them. We could then look and say someone like Aaron Martin does these things and here’s what motivates him. So we could actually, the next time we met somebody like Aaron Martin, we could give the optimal choices to influence behavior down the road. People loved it. And it allowed us, in chronic conditions, it’s mostly about, consistency of behavior and behavior modification. And so it’s tweaking this and the same way that Disney does that so you feel in charge and you feel like you’re getting what you want and what you need. We were doing that within the healthcare ecosystem of chronic conditions.

[00:06:12] Aaron Martin: Give me an example, like a very specific example within the Livongo context from, kind of, this is the type of data to, this is the kind of action it recommended, and then how did you make it kind of kinetic in the real world? Was it through advisers? Was it through the software?

[00:06:28] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: I’m going to start with an example. I might give a couple of examples, but one of my favorites was the data science that we use is the very tip top of the funnel. How do we get people drawn into the solution? And in the Southern part of the United States, there is a high prevalence of type two diabetes and it’s correlated with higher than average weight. And what we learned, through this and we couldn’t, I’m like, I just don’t, it doesn’t make sense to me. We offer the same things. We say, your employer has a solution for you. If you have diabetes, it’s free to you. And nobody wanted to sign up until we realized that in the south, the language is different. In the south, people don’t have diabetes. They just have a touch of the sugar. And so once we changed that phrase, we thought enrollment come through, right? Similarly, a lot of motivation is not around “control my blood sugar”. A lot of motivation is around “lose weight”. Lose weight. We all feel better losing weight. Who’s not going to sign up for a weight loss service with support, right? And so it’s through understanding the framing of the problems to the individual that we were able to draw them in. Similarly, when someone with diabetes has low blood sugar, you can recommend carbohydrates. And usually the answer is 15 grams of carbohydrates. Well saying to somebody who has low blood sugar, 15 grams of carbohydrates, it’s like literally speaking to Chinese to that person at that time, But there’s a difference, right? So some cultures use jams. Some cultures are heavy into jellybeans. Depending on the age, you might have different things in your house. And so it was really kind of personalizing those recommendations of the, then what to do, that we were able to actually drive home behaviors to improve the outcomes of the blood sugar management.

[00:08:13] Aaron Martin: So it’s things like what you’re saying is the language is super important. It can be very regionally different, like, so I’m here in Nashville. I can definitely tell you. I go between Nashville and Seattle and the language, the culture is very, very different. And the other thing you’re saying is the patient wants to know, or the consumer wants to know, how is this going to change something that matters to me, not necessarily like an abstract kind of clinical condition. Is that kind of a good summary of what you’re saying?

[00:08:47] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: That’s right. I think language matters. Personalization. I think blame, like not saying, what did you do? But like, how can we be of use to you? People with type two diabetes often carry a fair amount of shame and embarrassment. And so it’s never, you did, or you should. It’s like, what can we do to service you? Even people who had fallen off and not used our meter, we would call and say, how can we make our meter better? What have we done that has made you not…and it’s a framing. And then I do think very few people outside of the healthcare profession really care what their hemoglobin A1C is. Is it 7.2 or 6.9? I don’t know, but like, I want my dog to be healthy. I want to spend more time with my grandkids. I want to be close to my partner. Those are things that matter to people and you can leverage those and put those in a context where you drive similar outcomes in the clinical outcomes, in the context of what people care about.

[00:09:38] Aaron Martin: Got it. Got it. So those are, and we’re going to get to kind of what you’re doing now, which is like super duper exciting, but both in terms of Castlight, a company that went public, and Livongo, a huge success, a company that went public, what are the common things that you’ve learned between those two experiences that you’re kind of carrying into your next experience?

[00:09:59] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Yeah, I think the biggest learning for me out of Castlight was, pick a problem that matters, and pick a problem that matters to the people to whom you’re selling it. And the people whom are using it also benefit if they’re not the buyer. So there’s a lot of digital health is B to B to C, and you have to pick a problem. For us at Castlight, it was the discrepancy or the price variance for in network providers that really impacted the end user because they didn’t know that they had spent 500 more dollars. They had already picked an in network, but there was a cost variance and a quality variance. So, it was important to our clients to show them that we could drive employees to high quality, low cost options. And it was important for employees in high deductible plans to receive the same. And so pick a problem that matters and pick a problem that you can clearly demonstrate economic value. I’m a big believer of feel good things, consumer products, but at the end of the day, in healthcare, I think you have to be able to demonstrate and document economic value. Now, the good, the good and the bad part of that is there so much waste in the system, there’s lots of opportunities to do that. So that’s one. I think, at Livongo, what I really learned is, do something that matters in the ecosystem. And I don’t mean just the economic value to clients. I mean, make healthcare better. And the reason that’s important is because you attract people who are mission oriented and who want to do that for the sake of doing that. You build that team and you have a powerhouse and it is always the power of the team and really centering around something that has meaning to the group of people whom are centered around it is incredible. It’s amazing what a group of people whom are solving the same problem, coming from different viewpoints, can actually accomplish. And so I think very clearly articulating the mission as to why this company is doing this, focusing on a problem that matters, driving economic outcomes, you attract the right kind of people. And it’s that one plus one equals three combination. Culture and mission, I think, are invaluable in actually achieving something incredibly large. And we’ve, frankly speaking, definitely did that at Livongo and saw changes when Livongo was kind of incorporated into Teladoc, different team, different missions, different values. That’s been different progress.

[00:12:17] Aaron Martin: It’s interesting. We were one of, I guess, Castlight’s earliest health system customers, right? Or if not, I think the first. And what I remember the discussion being around that platform, and this was when I first joined Providence, was, there was definitely, an argument around, here’s how much the organization could save. But to kind of read that back to you, the thing that resonated a lot with our folks in HR that were kind of managing benefits was kind of the stories about how it would kind of impact the employees. And I think you’ve got to, to your point, you’ve got to have the fundamentals there from an ROI standpoint, but you’ve got to kind of explain through the sales process, why is this going to matter to the end user, the employee, who’s either not aware of the differential in costs, to your point, or may actually be economically impacted just because they don’t have enough information. I remember those types of stories being, it’s the story around the data, I know I’m being kind of captain obvious on this, but I think you’re hitting on it.

[00:13:21] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: And I think you’re right. And, we used to, at Castlight and at Livongo, at Livongo, every conference we held, we started with members. It started with our end users and our members talked about what was the impact to their lives. And that’s when you realize you can do well and do good at the same time, but like really, what you’re building has to have value in terms of a solution. It can’t be another widget, another thing in the middle. It actually has to do servicing the actual users to their benefit in order to continue to grow people, to continue to use. We were upward of 40 to 50% of engagement of our population. That’s unheard of in terms of engagement aspects of Livongo. And the reason is because we were absolutely obsessed with the member to the point that it was required for everybody in our company, even when we were at 700 to make member calls. And to do that, to understand what our people go through, it is very humbling when you speak with someone and they explain to you why or why not your solution works for them. You have so much insight into what we’re solving and for whom we’re solving it. It was like, the empathy is really, was really critical, I think for us on our mission at Livongo.

[00:14:30] Aaron Martin: Yeah, that’s a practice we used at Amazon. I think it’s just a huge, huge thing. You were required, no matter where you were in the organization, to spend a day at one of the fulfillment centers. And we were just generally freaking worthless to the fulfillment center people. I mean, I was a disaster, like, I’m sure they had to like cleanup on aisle six with me more times than I can count. And then you also had to spend a day in the call centers. And you sat down literally kind of right next to somebody and, A, it gave you an appreciation for how hard their jobs are. And then, B, it gave you a huge appreciation to your point about, are we always making it easier for the customer to kind of transact with us or to kind of get what they need out of it? I think that’s a great best practice. Switching gears a little bit, so tell me what you’re up to now. So like I’m super excited about this. You and I talked a little bit earlier, but tell me a little bit, I don’t want to kind of steal any thunder, so I’m just going to pitch it over to you, like what are you looking at now?

[00:15:36] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: When we sold Livongo to Teladoc, I left at the time of the transaction and joined General Catalyst as an executive in residence. And there, I got to spend time mentoring individual CEOs and helping with evaluation. And a lot of my time was spent on hatching, what could we do out of a venture and out of a group of entrepreneurs for the next thing. And so I’m really excited on this next company that we will formally be launching in February. And it’s really looking at rearchitecting the care delivery system in rural America. So we know that 20% of Americans live in what’s defined by the government as rural America. And we know that healthcare is failing this population and it’s failing because there’s not enough access. There’s not enough resources. And if you think, if we had no healthcare whatsoever and you were going to deliver healthcare to the 20% of people that are geographically drawn apart or over mountains, under rivers, across streams, how would you design it? And it would be very unlikely that you would build one central hospital to outreach to everybody. Instead you’d create a system that is a lot more remote monitoring, a lot more kind of home delivery, whether that be labs or medication, a connection through tele-health, in a world where broadband connectivity doesn’t exist yet. And so we’re really, really excited to be on this journey to deliver high quality specialty care, which is radically absent in rural markets and frankly the biggest cost driver and to be able to do that sooner and appropriately and then partner back into the existing healthcare ecosystem for the more tertiary, but without waiting for the train to hit the wall, to get to people sooner to help triage and care for them. We are delivering care in rural markets with a real focus on people who need and require specialty care because they don’t have specialty care and the care pathways are not available to people. So really excited. And again, I grew up in a small rural town. I grew up in Winona, Minnesota, and the population of people, these are my relatives, my family, is different than Silicon Valley. And we talk a little bit about understanding the population, that these are incredibly creative, crafty, loyal individuals that have received a subpar care delivery system. And so we’re taking that first step and rearchitecting that system to meet the needs and deliver care in the way that people deserve it and want it.

[00:18:13] Aaron Martin: What is the thing that you found out that is the most surprising thing that you didn’t expect, or is it all pretty much like yeah, based on your kind of knowledge of healthcare, it’s just a hard problem to kind of grind through, or what are the things that you’ve seen that are surprising so far?

[00:18:30] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: So far in this journey, I think there’s a couple things and they’re surprising to varying degrees. I think the extent of them that is revealed has been surprising. So for example, the mental differentiation for people in rural health care markets. And I tell the story, I am a fancy trained doc. I went to Johns Hopkins and I went to Stanford and I come from this small town. And yet my family goes to see the local doc. Whom has never passed his board, but is the captain of thesoftball team. And when I say that, everyone kind of chuckles and rolls their eyes, but the reality is they are very dedicated and very loyal to this person. And so I don’t see that as a negative. I see that as a real opportunity Not to lump all people in rural markets together, but there is a different mentality when you’re a smaller group, kind of putting yourself together to accomplish things in farther away places that is really important to understand from a mindset. I think that’s one. I think our goal, as we started this business, was really just provide value and to provide economic value. In fact, to the point where I want to own it. I want to put my feet to the fire. If I can’t do it. I want to be burned and it’ll make me get better. And yet, majority of healthcare still is a fee for service model with kind of minimal, increasing, but still minimal quality metrics for that service. And so really the alignment there around the contracting and what people are holding us accountable for, like I’m asking to be held accountable for as much as I possibly can because I know it’ll make me better. And then I think the third is just the approaches to solve rural healthcare today haven’t worked. And the biggest approach broadly speaking is the government increasing fee for service reimbursement. And the reason that that doesn’t work is there’s just not enough access. And think marginal fee for service reimbursement to get docs into rural areas, hasn’t proved beneficial. What that does is it kind of allows people to get further down their sick paradigm or sick pathway before they see healthcare. And so I think there’s a real opportunity, again, and a real need to align in a value based arrangement in these areas that you can own longitudinal risk over time. And I think that the remote nature of being able to provide care with some of the technology assistance will allow for a scaling that we haven’t seen, or haven’t done to date in a real health care market. One of our learnings was, you don’t actually need to do all of this with broadband. You can do some with a lot, actually, with cellular connectivity. Now there’s still cellular holes, but not as many as broadband tools. And so that allows the reach to be differentiated. And you look what’s happening for entrepreneurs writ large. Most of the risk bearing, most of the solutions are happening in urban markets, urban markets, where there’s dense population. And yet the solution that we’re proposing will absolutely work in urban markets, but it has to be done a particular way in order to work in rural markets. And so we’re starting in an area that’s maybe harder to build, but will scale efficiently across multiple places. And scale is really important to me. I want to do something hard and big, or I don’t really want to do it at all.

[00:21:42] Aaron Martin: Our CEO, Rod Hochman, is Chair of the AHA. And one of the things he always talks about is the risk that kind of the community hospitals are under. And in terms of just losing them completely. And we’ve seen that in some of our footprint where we tend to operate larger hospitals in metropolitan areas. We do have some community hospitals spread across our footprint. How do you build something like what you’re talking about without unintentionally kind of undermining, these critical access hospitals that are at least closer to folks that you’re talking about? How do you strengthen the ecosystem instead of potentially weakening it?

[00:22:17] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: It’s a great question because I don’t see us as entering a new competitor to providers in rural markets. I don’t see that’s what we’re doing at all. I see our job in rural markets is to kind of be an extender of the existing providers and capture more people at the top of the funnel into hospitals, so that the timing is appropriate, so that…and a successful outcome would be 50% fewer emergency cardiac catheterizations, because we’ve caught things up front, because we’ve been able to monitor people, and bring them in for tertiary procedures earlier. And it’s at the right time. So you’re not waiting until the end. I think that’s a critical component. And I think receptivity from providers are, you know, I’m a doc, so this is criticism of myself and my profession. We’re typically slower to adopt new services and new technologies. We typically think we can do it ourselves. And then we try and it doesn’t work. We’ve seen this pattern repeated a number of times, but I do not see us as a competitor. I see us as a partner and an extender to these where we can actually frankly increase overarching revenue for these organizations and doing so in a way that improves existing healthcare. Imagine if you could know the thousand extra people that are going to come in for that year, the next two years, for emergency, coronary artery bypass graft, because they’re having an acute MI. You could catch them earlier and get them seen and treated and appropriate medications. That’s actually a savings writ large, and it’s a service, well, you’ll be doing more procedures, appropriate procedures, on people earlier. And that’s, I think, the way the paradigm is shifting. We’ve seen a lot of providers do telehealth. Almost nobody does remote patient monitoring. The reason they don’t is because it’s an influx of data and they haven’t set up the algorithms by which you can actually influence that. It’s not a human sitting in a computer. You’re not hiring more humans to read data. You’re setting up mathematical algorithms to identify and drive care pathways differently. And so, we see ourselves as an extender here, not a competitor.

[00:24:20] Aaron Martin: Are there ways of keeping the patients safely in the community?

[00:24:25] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: I think that that’s right. I think it’s like the concept of allowing people to work at their top of their licensure. And then I think the second is concentration. Like under no circumstance, can all of us be good at everything, no matter who we think we are. And so like, if you allow critical access hospitals and then support them to be good at the things that make sense and not ask them to do everything, and then have an escalation procedure and protocol, and have the very complex come into more tertiary, that’s great for the entire population. Not just great for tertiary, not just great for access, it’s not just great for the individual people. And so it’s thinking through that systematically, right? So this idea around allowing people to practice at the top of their licensure is I think the only way, combined with technology, I think is the only way you can actually deliver healthcare at scale. And we still kind of expect one person or one shop to do everything, and by the way, do it all really well. We don’t think about the rest of our lives in that same capacity. Like, I don’t know about you, but like I know my limits in the house. And so like I hire some stuff out. There are things that I am not good at. And I have no problem saying I am not good at that. I am good at So shift this to me and shift that to somebody else. And I think those conversations in healthcare haven’t historically existed over a long period of time, in part driven by economics. But once you start to change the conversation, it actually drives more economics to allow people to do what they’re really good at at the top of their licensure.

[00:25:52] Aaron Martin: Get in the mind of one of these community physicians who are first encountering your new offering. What is the change management that typically has to happen in the market, both for I guess the patient and kind of the community of physicians that the patient might be working with outside of your service.

[00:26:10] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Yeah. I think the two key concepts are make someone’s life better and don’t take away their money.

[00:26:15] Aaron Martin: Yeah.

[00:26:16] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Like that’s it. And so, you know, example at Livongo we’d say we got this covered. We’re watching every blood glucose, 24 by seven, by 365. You’re not going to get called in the middle of the night or like ding ding ding ding ding, or like, you’re going to have a weekend off ding ding ding ding ding, or when there is something that goes awry, we’re going to manage the individual and then we’re going to send you the information. So you’re not going to get oodles of information. Win, win, win. And oh, by the way, we’re not taking any of your economics. Like now you’re able to see levels four and five patients and we’re going to manage the levels one, two, and three. So when you see a patient, you’re actually getting reward. That’s a huge benefit. I say, and I may have even described you, for an internal medicine doc, this is Coumadin clinic, which is like, people used to be started on blood thinners and you’d give them oral medication called Warfarin ,and you’d have them come back to the lab. It stinks to be the individual that have to come back to the blood draw. It stinks to be the doctor because it’s really just an algorithm that you’re reading off of a chart until you memorize it. And you’re able to, again, offload that to somebody else who’s at a lower practice level. You’re able to see higher acuity care and the individual’s able to not come in and get to the lab. So there’s a lot of analogies here, but it comes down to those two economics. How do you make a provider’s life easier and how do you not take their money away? And again, this world, it’s not as though we’re competing because there’s not enough patients and there’s too many resources. That is not the problem. The problem is a hundred percent the inver, right? So out the gate you’re providing access. And then I think what, by approaching this and doing remote patient monitoring and at home monitoring, you’re then able to bring in to a higher level of acuity or higher level of care those people who really need it, and that provides better economics for the practicing physicians there. And so it is in many ways, a win. I think importantly, as in the rest of life, communication is critical. You can never over communicate. And very rarely have we met someone we say, you know what, they are just an overcommunicator. That’s rarely a problem. And I think healthcare is the same. And so I think ensuring that the data that needs to go to support the individual gets put in those places for the care team is critical to this. But once you do that again, as long as you’re making their lives easier and not taking money away, I think it’s a win.

[00:28:32] Aaron Martin: You’ve been incredibly successful, like, two companies have gone public. You’ve had senior leadership roles in both, and now you’re starting. What I think is going to bea huge opportunity in rural health. What advice would you give the kind of budding entrepreneur, if you will, in healthcare?

[00:28:50] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: I think it’s the kind of the two things that we started with, which is, find something that matters and that matters both to you. And do you have a personal connection with it and there’s a reason why you want to fix it. And it matters to the health care ecosystem. And then build a team of people who are like-minded around accomplishing that goal. I’m a quantitative person more than I am a feeling person and I have learned time and time again that it’s the group of people and the unification around a similar goal that actually gets something done. And so that goal should matter to you as an entrepreneur, it should matter to healthcare. And you got to find people who want to do that with you in the journey. These success story journeys, as Aaron very well knows, it’s not a linear up and up and up, and everything’s great. They’re up and down, and then down, and then even farther down, like you’re digging a sub-basement for a couple of years. And then you come up and then you hit the peak and then…so it is a journey over time and it is with the group of people around you whom are aiming at this thing. This includes investors. This includes your board. It includes your exec team and includes your administrative health. It includes the whole team aiming very clearly at what you’re trying to accomplish as the goal and improving something that you feel passionate about.

[00:30:06] Aaron Martin: I once heard John Doerr say it’s a long-term kind of ten-year commitment usually. And he talked about, find people you want to get in trouble with. And his whole point was, he’s like, at some point there’s going to be trouble. At some point, you’re going to hit a wall. There’s going to be kind of…and really, I think to your point, make sure it’s the personality, the kind of the focus on mission, that kind of thing that really matters. One last question. What’s the thing you would warn entrepreneurs about coming into healthcare. What’s a couple of things that you would say, look, this might surprise you, or this is something that kind of surprised me in I guess the earlier phases of your career or whatnot.

[00:30:49] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: So I think one of the biggest lessons, more of a leadership, but it’s absolutely a leadership in healthcare, which is humility. And so I think that I sit in these companies and digital health parent. I have so many successful, non-healthcare executives come in and they’re like, and I’m going to change, and I’m going to tell the payers, and I’m going to…and I was like, that is awesome and good luck and come back and let me know how that goes. And then you meet very unique, highly successful entrepreneurs and leaders, and they ask you 10 questions. They come to the session with you. They don’t tell you how good they are. They’re not even trying to sell you. They come in and say, here’s my idea. Tell me how to get better. What do you think about this? And so these are seasoned healthcare people, seasoned health care people, let alone people coming from outside the industry. And so I think that one of the biggest characteristics of a successful entrepreneur is the humility to ask, and in genuine curiosity, to ask a bunch of questions. One of my favorite CEOs that I advise is Kate. And she is CEO of Maven. And she’s an investigative reporter by background training. The amount of thinking she has as she comes into these conversations, she is seeking information and like, you can see the active component of coming through. We often see all of us, and I, a lot of these are my colleagues and friends, like on a podium and they seem to know what they’re talking about and they’re entertaining. But when you watch them do the work, they’re doing the work and asking questions along the way. And the ability to assimilate that information into that, I think is like the key advice that I would have to any entrepreneur for sure in healthcare, because none of us…it’s super broken. None of us know all the answers. It continues to change and unless we’re asking the questions, we’ll never get the answer.

[00:32:36] Aaron Martin: Jenny, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. I know the folks that are kind of listening gotten a ton of value out of listening to your story and your background and your thoughts on the industry. And I’m a huge admirer of yours. And thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us.

[00:32:55] Jennifer Schneider, M.D., M.S.: Well, thank you for the opportunity and thank you for all your feedback along the way in all the different business ventures. So I’ve learned from you equally. And you know that, which is why you’re on speed dial.

[00:33:04] Aaron Martin: Excellent.